This is the last time each player played a full season. The talent doesn't match the production. Even this season the talent didn't match the production from Cutler. Reality is he has never played up to his potential. At this point in his career it isn't unreasonable for a lot of fans to believe he may never consistently play at a high level.

Cutler in 2012:
3033 yards
19 touchdowns
18 turnovers (14 interceptions)
58.8 completion percentage
81.3 rating

Ponder in 2012:
2935 yards
18 touchdowns
17 turnovers (12 interceptions)
62.1 completion percentage
81.2 rating

Sam Bradford in 2012:
3702 yards
21 touchdowns
14 turnovers (13 interceptions)
59.5 completion percentage
82.6 rating

Carson Palmer in 2012 (on talentless Raiders team):
4018 yards
22 touchdowns
19 turnovers (14 interceptions)
61.1 completion percentage
85.3 rating

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If you really want to stick it to the Cutler lovers, add in Carson Palmer into that and realize that the Raiders gave up on him. The Raiders!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You can say it now until the end of time but it's not accurate at all.

Total QBR was developed by a team at ESPN Stats & Information Group including Jeff Bennett, Dean Oliver, Alok Pattani, Albert Larcada, and Menlo College professor Ben Alamar. The group also received input from ESPN analysts Trent Dilfer, Jon Gruden, and Ron Jaworski. Total QBR was developed based on analysis of 60,000 NFL plays between 2008-2010, and was unveiled on August 5, 2011. The formula was modified in 2012 and again in 2013.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Holy shit, that is awful

That is awful, and its part of the reason why there is a new head coach, yet another OC, new TE, new offensive line. What does 2012's stats have to do with 2013's stats and what happens in 2014?

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Regardless of how wikipedia trumps it up, it was the brain child of Trent Dilfer. He was just too stupid to put the math together.

Im running out of any sort of desire to keep aruging this, but obviously Cutler's whole history is in play. Not just the 9 games he played last year

Well, Bradford did have a better but shorter season this year. Ponder is a mess right now and needs to leave the Vikings.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I updated it. The fascination in his physical tools IMO is what blinds a lot of people. It probably blinded the Bears too.

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I noticed that too. He had a 90+ rating. It's one of the reasons why the rating is meaningless. It can tell you a QB is better or worse than they actually played in a game.

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So you want to go back 2 years and compare Ponder's best year ever with Cutler's worst year ever and call them the same QB?

Then, I'll show you how Cutler is better than Peyton Manning.

That's a reach even by your trolling standards.

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It very clearly wasn't, so unless you were sitting there giving Dilfer a handjob when he had his eureka moment, again you can blather whatever bullshit you want but it doesn't make it any more true than if you typed out "The sky is purple" every day the rest of your life.

Christ .... you say he invented QBR except for the math part ... ... math is all that it is, you 'tard.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

What would you like me to show you? I went back 1 season (the last time they played a full season and the season the Bears finished 10-6) and posted the stats of players that most would agree that Cutler is better than. It wasn't Cutler's worst season either. Matt Schaub would really make Cutler look bad if I posted his. I'm really starting to believe you have no clue what his numbers are and you are just looking at his talent in comparison to other players. I see it too. It's one of the reasons I was a Cutler fan for 3 1/2 years. The reality of his production can't be ignored.

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You don't have to show me anything. Sorry, it was his 2nd worst season, arguably.

I just don't see the point of singling out a guy's best versus another guy's worst and saying "See!". Plus, it's not even the most recent data. Wouldn't subsequent evidence that the bad guy regressed while the good one not only bounced back but exceeded his historical averages be relevant?

If you think Ponder is as good as Cutler, I'm comfortable agreeing to disagree.

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My Maserati does 186.

Are you reading what I'm posting or are you debating another Hypothetical Nas? I've been clear about that for some time. Even when I was pointing this out prior to the season I was clear that Ponder wasn't anywhere near the player Cutler was.

BTW Ponder wasn't the ONLY player on that list. There are guys that will NOT get anywhere near the money Cutler has been given even though their production has been better. That cannot be overlooked. His talent says we should be comparing his to the Elite 4 but when you look at his actual production EVERY YEAR it is similar or worse than guys who aren't as good or who are awful.

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Alright, never mind then. I guess I don't what your point was.

But, I'm going to go have lunch and try not to think about it.

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My Maserati does 186.

Sam Bradford got $50million guaranteed deal 3.5 years ago, a whopping $4million less than Cutler.

I'd say that actually is quite near.

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Wasn't that his rookie deal? Wasn't that back when #1 picks got stupid money?

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If you can go back to 2012 to cherry pick stats, why can't I go back to 2010 to when contracts were signed?

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I don't think you've ever tried to see my point or anyone else that isn't a C.A.L.L.™ member. I doubt you will, but that won't stop me from trying. In my opinion, Cutler has top 5 talent, but Cutler's production is typically equal to or worse than QB's with inferior talent. I don't think that is hard to grasp and it isn't disputable.

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It's not cherry picking stats. Bradford and Palmer's numbers were still better if you just wanted to focus on this season. If you want to add in Cutler's guarantees from the Bears and Broncos we can do that too. Fact is Cutler's production has been average or worse.

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Jay Cutler has NEVER been better than the 12th best QB in the NFL


That's a fact, friends

The Texans will release Matt Schaub this offseason so they can save $4M in cap space. He's coming off his worse season as a pro and most would probably say Cutler is better. The actual production shows that Schaub is WAY better than Cutler. Before this season his average rating with Houston was 93. Even after this season it is still 90.

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So, why bring up Ponder since Cutler's production is consistently much better than Ponder's except if you choose one specific year of their overall careers and compare them?

I think that position is pretty disputable.

If you want to compare his production to Bradford, I don't think it's very close based on their overall career production but it's certainly much closer than Ponder. I think you are just bringing up Ponder to be sensational even though it's a huge stretch to make it fit your argument.

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My Maserati does 186.

I don't think most people would jump to say Cutler is better than Schaub.

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My Maserati does 186.

I was using Ponder as an example before the season started and before he regressed. I brought up Ponder and others to illustrate how Cutler's production is equal to or worse than players he's clearly more talented than every year. It also shows how his talent and production doesn't match. If we looked at his annual statistics they would be similar or worse than a lot of Ponder's of the world. That shouldn't be the case. The larger point I was making is that fans fall in love with his talent and overlook his production. I was guilty of it the majority of the time he has been a Bear.

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I would. I also doubt anyone would suggest he should get a big contract.

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No great QB ever had a year simliar to Christian Ponder


I really dont get the Cutler love. Its ridiculous at this point. The guy is and has been average and he just got paid like he's great.

Aren't a lot of you saying that Cutler is better than Stafford? So Schaub is better than Stafford and Cutler and yet he's being cut for $4M?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Production wise I completely agree. When it comes to talent there are only a few guys in the league that have more.

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